But it’s one that we need to have.
When it comes to conversation about Israel, there is a lot of jabber, and from people who pose little threat to anyone. There are:
1.) leftist atheists jabbering and there are a lot of
2.) Christian Zionists jabbering,
which is exactly what the media wants — a black and white debate.
But there is not a lot of talk breaking through to the mainstream from believers who devoutly love God, but say that Zionism is totally evil.
And for this reason, I know some time spent with a person like that can help clear up some misunderstandings.
Enter Chuck Baldwin.
Baldwin was once an earnest Christian Zionist,
a devout supporter of the modern state of Israel,
well-paid,
popular,
a beloved figure in the Moral Majority movement of the 1980s and 1990s.
For 35 years of his career, he preached Christian Zionism.
He has since repented of that.
According to Baldwin, around 2006 or 2007, he began to have his eyes opened to the evil of the things he had been supporting.
He began to have a change of heart on the topic of Zionism (support of the modern State of Israel). But the following 7 or 8 years, until 2014, he did not speak publicly on the topic.
He put away his volumes of commentary,
he put away his scholarly texts,
he put away his seminary notes,
and he prayed about the modern State of Israel and
read the Bible.
He came to realize that no Bible scholar who wrote after 1900 could any longer be trusted.
Too many had been co-opted by love of money, love of success, love of man's praise,
Rather than love of God.
Finally, in 2014, on Sunday, August 10, 2014 to be exact,
finally, after 7 years, Baldwin went public with his views,
in a sermon called “The Pharisees Hated Jesus.”
The response from the evangelical community was extensive,
widespread, and
underhanded.
Cancel culture almost immediately came upon him.
For the following six years, Baldwin preached 35 sermons,
using many chapters and verses of the Bible in doing so,
specifically pointing to how unbiblical it is for a Christian to support the modern State of Israel.
At this point, Baldwin, is unquestionably a voice against the movement of Christian Zionism,
a prophet,
calling on his Christian brothers and sisters to repent.
Beginning Monday, December 9, 2024 at 5pm ET / 4pm CT / 3pm MT / 2pm PT we will begin a discussion
on the trajectory of his teaching on the topic of Zionism in general, and
Christian Zionism in particular.
The discussion will continue over the next 7 days, covering a sermon or two at a time.
But it won’t stop with Zionism.
Yes, that is the nature of the topic, but he will hit on many contemporary topics,
and will come at it from the perspective of a brave and patriotic pastor looking around at his colleagues seeing corruption and cowardice.
This will not be for the faint of heart.
This will not be for the snowflake.
This will not be for someone used to running from the truth.
I am not saying Baldwin has a monopoly on the truth, but if you can’t deal with iron coming at you to sharpen your iron, this is not going to be for you.
If you can handle someone showing you a very different perspective from the mainstream media, the mainstream seminaries,
even if you find yourself in disagreement —
I believe you will be left with significant growth, no matter what side of the discussion you start out supporting and no matter what side of the discussion you end up supporting.
Baldwin does a good job giving sermons citing preachers and theologians and other scholars from before 1900.
Like everything else in the United States, he seems of the opinion that American churches, largely took a wrong term starting at that time.
Baldwin, again, is a particularly hard-hitting pastor.
I do not believe a single person will walk away from this discussion without being challenged in some way and likely changed in some way.
In the process, if you bring a Bible with you, and you do the recommended preparation work for each class, you will receive a master class on why Zionism is patently unbiblical.
That means, you will never again fall for the many lies spouted about the modern State of Israel.
You will never again fall for the lies that preachers almost unthinkingly speak about the modern State of Israel.
I am not saying you will agree with Baldwin, but I can say that you will be far better armed not to just absorb whatever you are told on the topic,
because the Bible has some very clear indications that we are being told some pretty bad stuff on the topic, stuff verging on the un-biblical.
In our generation of YouTube shorts and TikTok clips, this depth of study will provide you with an insight beyond anything that you will get almost anywhere else.
And I am not saying that, just because of the expert work of Baldwin.
But I am saying that because I know how intense and insightful our discussions will be on the topic.
For some two years now, I have not just sat down to read books and then left it at that,
but for some two years now, I have sat down to read books and to invite others to join me in discussing them.
We have such mighty conversations, that add value to some of the most powerful of work.
And they don’t just add it like a PhD dissertation or
a college English class or
a government economist or like
a New York Times bestselling author.
They add it like people who firmly have both feet planted in reality and like people who love both liberty and truth with a mighty love.
These have been powerful conversations, and I have no doubt that this one will additionally be a powerful conversation.
So many in politics, so many in economics, so many in theology operate with great intellectual dishonesty, seeking views that will simply reinforce their own views.
Baldwin is different.
Difference 1.) Baldwin learned the Cyrus Schofield/Charles Darby defense of Christian Zionism inside and out.
Difference 2.) Baldwin preached what he was taught for the next 35 years, traveling in the highest circles of that world.
Difference 3.) Baldwin withdrew from that world, going into a 7 or 8 year period of study and prayer.
Difference 4.) Baldwin emerged from that with a very different and uncomfortable opinion that made him unwelcome and hated among many of his former friends and supporters.
This is a man who knows the issue of Christian Zionism from many sides, and understands those different sides, their theories, and their motivations.
His first sermon in that series, “The Pharisees Hated Jesus,” was a powerful demonstration of those insightful, careful years of study and prayer.
His final sermon in that series, delivered January 26, 2020, shows his growth on the topic, “The Proselytes Of The Pharisees: Taking America To The Pits Of Hell.”
The contrast between the two will show a powerful arc in the trajectory of this public intellectual.
While this will be hard-hitting, this sermon and discussion is certain to
leave you greater growth as a Christian, it is certain to
leave you with a deeper understanding of the Bible, it is certain also to
leave you with a sense of hope.
And it is not only Christians invited.
Nor is it only anti-Zionists invited.
In fact it is okay if you are a Zionist or if you don’t even care about the topic.
I’m looking for people:
1.) Who wish to defend Christian Zionism.
2.) Who wish to oppose Christian Zionism.
3.) Who wish to just come and learn.
Jews, Muslims, atheists, conservatives, leftists, agnostics, are all invited, with no limitation to who is welcome.
This will be a lot less fun if it is only an echo-chamber of discussion — though I know it won’t be.
I have been doing discussions like this for a few years now, and I know the core group of attendees too well, to imagine that this would ever be an echo chamber.
It will also be very affordable.
Consider it a Christmas present, so that you will have no excuse to sit out this exciting and important topic, that will not doubt encourage passionate and insightful opinions to be shared as we sort through the truth of this.
I would do the discussion for free, but the never works.
There needs to be some money on the line, especially for a hot-button topic like this.
If it doesn’t cost something, trolls galore will show up, people with nothing on the line, who will come to do nothing but disrupt.
And that is not the kind of place I run.
I run a place where thoughtful people can have thoughtful discussions that help them grow.
I invite you to join in on that.
Tap here before the end of the day December 7, 2024, but truthfully,
the sooner you get in the more you will get from this.
You’ll have instant access to the online community, instant access to the material, instant access to some neat people who will be just as eager as you to move forward with the work we set out to do, which is this — to diligently parse the Christian argument against Zionism, to know it forward and backward, and to never be able to be lied to again about the flimsy argument in favor of Christian Zionism.
Or you know what, perhaps our discussion will be so lively that we will see that the argument in favor of Christian Zionism is so apparent and impossible to deny.
We will each get to be the judge in that matter.
But, having spent decades immersed in the pro-Zionist arguments,
and having watched and studied these sermons from Baldwin over the past six or so months,
it is fair to say that I have never come across such an effective Christian counter-argument to Christian Zionism.
For anyone to be ready to come against these arguments delivered, will require an delivery far more effective than the usual saccharine appeals and invective jeremiads that are used to defend the virtually blind support of the modern State of Israel by American Christians.
Join me, for a very powerful 7 days of discussion.
Allan Stevo
Schedule
All times below are 2-3 pm Pacific, unless otherwise noted.
Week 1
Monday 12/9 - Discuss the day's sermon
Tuesday 12/10 - Discuss the day's sermon
Wednesday 12/11 - Discuss the day's sermon
Thursday 12/12 - Discuss the day's sermon
Tuesday 12/13 - Discuss the day's sermon
Week 2
Monday 12/16 - Discuss the day's sermon
Tuesday 12/17 - Conclusion
About the presenters:
Chuck Baldwin is the pastor of Liberty Fellowship, Kalispell, Montana. Pastor Baldwin will not present live. We will view and discuss his sermons.
Allan Stevo is a bestselling writer who hosts thought-provoking books discussions with his readers. Allan will be a live participant in all discussion meetings.
FAQs
Is this hosted on Facebook?
Absolutely not. I was sick of the censorship on Facebook. There is no authority figure (other than me) with the power to censor our platform. Our discussion will be free and open. The live audio/video discussion is held on one of my websites.
What kind of software do I need?
Internet that gets more than 3 Mbps and a fairly updated browser will do the job. If you wish to participate in the live discussion, you should have a microphone that works and ideally a video camera that works, but the video camera is not necessary. There is also a live chat room, which is a second way to participate. I will probably have a test run before we start, just in case anyone wants to test their computer equipment on the platform.
How long will the discussions last?
I will plan for them to be one hour discussions, but I will play it by ear and will not schedule anything directly after our daily calls, just in case we go overtime.
May I pay by check or cash?
Yes, you can send those to:
Allan Stevo
150 Sutter St. #778
San Francisco, CA 94104
Be sure to include your email address clearly written. But please don’t put my team through that extra work for $5.
Is this a one time payment of $5?
Yes. This is not a membership. It is a one time payment of $5 which gets you into this book discussion. Below there is another option to have a lifetime membership for $200, which gives you access to all future and past book discussions.
Is Chuck Baldwin’s church run as a 501 (c) 3?
No.
Are there any rules to this discussion?
When I do media appearances, I try to get my answers out and to make my point in under 35-45 seconds. I figure giving everyone a maximum of 2 minutes to make a point is not unreasonable of me. I am going to ask that you not talk for more than 2 minutes, or else I will cut you off. People monopolizing the discussion are no fun. Those who can’t make their point in 2 minutes or less, need to think about their thoughts a little more clearly. If we can all make clear statements in under 2 minutes, we can cover a lot more territory.
Will this be recorded?
This will be recorded. Please do not share too much private information about yourself on the live call. The discussion may one day be shared online. The recordings are usually posted the same day to our group channel, so that anyone who wants to view that day’s discussion will be able to listen to the discussion before the next day’s discussion.
Questions:
Write me at allan@realstevo.com with anything on your mind.
The Book Club — The All You Can Eat Option
Last year (2023) I started something new, a book discussion with my readers.
This year (2024) I am going to do a book or more a month, or at least that is the plan. More than wanting to get rich off these awesome discussions, I want to make them accessible to as many people as possible.
So, what I am offering right now is a lifetime subscription to my book readings. It’s not your lifetime and it’s not my lifetime. It’s for the lifetime of the book reading group.
The group is called “The Book Club,” and for $200 you are in for as long as the book club exists. I don’t know how long that will be but I can’t see it ending before the year is over and my guess is that it will last beyond that.
Don’t try writing me looking for a refund for past readings. It starts today and includes the book reading mentioned above.
Though I haven’t set the price yet, Each book reading on their own will probably be in the ballpark of $50 or more a piece. So, the Book Club will save you a bundle of money. If you don’t want to save a bundle of money and just want to give me more of it, that’s cool with me too, but this is meant to help lower the obstacle for people to get in.
At the same time, I’m not trying to lower it too low — free means you get some real trolls. And while I love trolls in my email — ridiculing them are one of the joys of life — yes, while I love trolls in my email, I’m not trying to welcome trolls into these awesome discussions.
“Are there any discounts?” you may ask. There will be no discounts on the lifetime membership. The membership is the discount. I might pull this offer down at any time and I might leave it up for forever, so keep that in mind. I might change the price, or I might leave it the same.
"Are non-Purebloods welcome?" you may ask. Oh yes in deed. All are welcome. I will not be checking vaccine status at the door. Come. Enjoy. We’ll have the best conversations together.